Liberal government to buy Trans Mountain pipeline for $4.5B
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HOW CAN PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?
Would you walk here? Swim here? Take your family here? Eat food from this ocean?
Picture our incredible BC coastline forever spoiled by the inevitable, eventual, accidental oil spill. Where would all of Canada, let alone the rest of the world come, to enjoy what is known to be one of the most beautiful and pristine places on the planet? Come to "vacation".
Oh wait, you are only vacationing here. Well, we live here! This is our home, our love, our stewardship. Canadians used to be proud of our stewardship of this country, of our forests, our waters, our purity, if you will.
At the VERY least, we should keep it out of our waters.
It just breaks my heart that people cannot understand where true progress lies. And don't give me that sad old argument "you drive a car don't you?" That is NOT the point here. Technology is already developed and growing in other arenas for transportation and for heat etc. We need to grow up and look to the future of this incredible planet we live on.
I know that the technology for solar, wind, geo thermal etc. energy is far from perfect, but it seems that ONLY dire necessity is going to be the mother of these inventions, because as humans, we always seem to wait just a bit too long into a disaster before acting. So much good could be done in development of new energy with the money that our government is spending to buy a dinosaur.
I also know I only understand in a small way about the oil industry, how many things it powers, and I realize how third world countries would damage the planet less with oil and natural gas than with coal, and even about how Trudeau is trying to give Canada a viable economical boost for the short term, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.
We need to think harder and faster, and make better decisions for the future. - Wendy White
Well Wendy, much has changed in the 29 years since the Exxon Valdez struck that reef. For one thing, tankers are now double-hulled making chances of a leak much less probable. You might have chosen a more recent example to make your point - oh, you couldn't find one? - funny that. As to your point about technology being available to ease us off oil - you are right, it is available but either astronomically expensive or totally unfeasible in many areas of Canada. Until such a time as we are able to provide Canadians with financially viable alternatives in all parts of our country and for all sectors of our economy, oil will continue to be a necessity.
Twinning the pipeline is the right thing to do and over-the-top rhetoric about hypothetical outcomes is not going to change that fact.
The Titanic was double hulled. Many double hulled ships have been breached. The old Trans Mountain pipeline leaks like a sieve. New pipelines leak all the time. Your faith in these shysters is unfounded.
No it wasn't.
SCIENCE
04/03/2012 08:56 EDT | Updated 06/03/2012 05:12 EDT
'Unsinkable' Boats Possible? Titanic Scholar Talks Design
The claim that the RMS Titanic was "practically unsinkable" may have been more a marketing tactic than a commentary on its engineering, but its prelaunch reputation of being impervious to the perils of the high seas has lingered for the past 100 years.
It is dangerous to cast engineering projects in such absolute terms--of course there had to be some combination of conditions under which the ocean liner would have failed. As elegant and grand as it was, however, the Titanic--like any other ship--was far from unsinkable.
At nearly 275 meters long with a gross weight of about 42,000 metric tons, the Titanic was the largest ship ever built at the time. It featured 16 major watertight compartments in its lower section that could be sealed off in the event of a punctured hull. Yet the luxury liner sank less than three hours after colliding with a massive iceberg in the North Atlantic, despite some estimates that it should have been able to stay afloat for as long as three days after an accident at sea.
The watertight compartments proved to be a fatal design flaw--one that James Cameron illustrated well early in his 1997 film recounting the fateful April night in 1912 when the Titanic sunk, taking about two thirds of her 2,200 passengers into the icy waters with her. The 90-meter gash in the Titanic's hull caused the ship to take on water near its bow, flooding six of the compartments. When enough water had penetrated the hull breach, the ship pitched forward at an angle that caused water from the individual compartments to spill over their bulkheads, inundating the front of the ship and sending the Titanic like a torpedo to the ocean bottom almost four kilometers below. Had the bulkheads been higher, or watertight at the top as well as the bottom, the water rushing into the hull might have been distributed more evenly, giving passengers more time to escape.
Considering the thousands of kilometers of pipeline extant in Canada, Cliffy - the odd leak is to be expected. They are duly reported to the public and consequently efficiently cleaned up. My faith in them is strong.
My faith is non-existent. We need to be spending that money elsewhere. All that crap is for export and will, in all likelihood, be returned to us a useless plastic crap at Walmart.
Cost to twin Trans Mountain pipeline could be $1.9B higher, Kinder Morgan says
The $7.4 billion construction cost Kinder Morgan reported in February 2017 hasn't been updated since the project hit political snags, construction delays and opposition in B.C.
The first update of any kind came Tuesday when Kinder Morgan filed required documents as the company gears up for a shareholder vote on the sale in Calgary on August 30.
In those pages, the company looks at a few different construction cost scenarios as part of a fairness evaluation of the sale offer to the Canadian government. The most expensive scenario pegs construction costs at $9.3 billion, taking until December 2021 to complete -- a full year after the current timetable of December 2020.
Allan, who said she has expertise on a number of multibillion infrastructure projects, believes in the end $9.3 billion will seem like a steal compared to the final price tag.
"This is the least it's going to cost," said Allan.
She said the biggest frustration is the lack of information coming from the federal government about the planned sale.
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I'm sure pretty much anyone with half a brain (which would exclude Trudeau) saw this coming from a mile away. It is not possible to turn over a private venture to government and not result in a huge inflation of the bottom line and increase in project scope and schedule.
I have a feeling this is only the beginning of the bad news...if the project even sees completion at all.
The $7.4 billion construction cost Kinder Morgan reported in February 2017 hasn't been updated since the project hit political snags, construction delays and opposition in B.C.
The first update of any kind came Tuesday when Kinder Morgan filed required documents as the company gears up for a shareholder vote on the sale in Calgary on August 30.
In those pages, the company looks at a few different construction cost scenarios as part of a fairness evaluation of the sale offer to the Canadian government. The most expensive scenario pegs construction costs at $9.3 billion, taking until December 2021 to complete -- a full year after the current timetable of December 2020.
Allan, who said she has expertise on a number of multibillion infrastructure projects, believes in the end $9.3 billion will seem like a steal compared to the final price tag.
"This is the least it's going to cost," said Allan.
She said the biggest frustration is the lack of information coming from the federal government about the planned sale.
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I'm sure pretty much anyone with half a brain (which would exclude Trudeau) saw this coming from a mile away. It is not possible to turn over a private venture to government and not result in a huge inflation of the bottom line and increase in project scope and schedule.
I have a feeling this is only the beginning of the bad news...if the project even sees completion at all.
Without factoring in carbon tax...or government administration and inherent inefficiency, or inflation due to holdups and project schedule extension, or further environmental protest delay costs and security, or future stakeholder management (which Trudeau has already shown his complete incompetence in managing), or loss of intrinsic value (resale to private sector at a loss)...
And this doesn't even account for lost resource revenue from not moving product through the new pipe due to at minimum a year's delay.
Then by all means let First Nations buy it.
It's buy this line or go ahead with the Spirit Eagle pipeline they've proposed that skirts the tanker ban with a terminal in Alaska.
It's buy this line or go ahead with the Spirit Eagle pipeline they've proposed that skirts the tanker ban with a terminal in Alaska.
Trudeau screwed this up badly. KM was ready to do the expansion, the studies had all been done, it was all legal. Then Trudeau allowed KM to be frightened off by a few FN bands, some US funded protesters, and the dippy government in BC, none of whom have the legal right to stop this project. What was needed was strong federal leadership and Trudeau failed to provide it. This should be a huge issue come next election.
I think this is more of trudOWE talking out of both sides of his mouth. He thinks the feds buying KM will placate Alberta when in effect he is just making thing easier for the anti everything crowd. This will eat up time that should have been construction and then buy back his ecoterrorists by claiming it is not economically feasible to build the line. After the next election his financiers will buy KM for pennies.
Alberta doesn't take part in dividing up the bulk of the profits for any industry that sets up shop here. The owners of Syncrude flew out of the site before Ft Mac was fully on fire. Poof.
Completely agree.
I think Trudeau is operating under his usual M.O. The only way for him to weather this issue going into an election year is to keep the shells moving, confuse the issue as much as possible and delay any construction progress or any decision making on this file until after next year's election. That way he can stall the opponents of the project and give them a perception that it's possible it could be further delayed or cancelled...and at the same time declare to the proponents of the project that he is working hard to get a pipeline built.
He's a fool, and anyone who trusts anything he says regarding pipelines is equally foolish.
"We can’t shut down the oilsands tomorrow. We need to phase them out. We need to manage the transition off of our dependence on fossil fuels but it’s going to take time and in the meantime we have to manage that transition." - Justin Trudeau
Your optimism is admirable, I wish I shared it.
Globe and Mail: The Trans Mountain pipeline will never be built
Why won't it happen? Because despite the approval of the National Energy Board 15 months ago, opposition to the pipeline has only grown.
In other words, Justin Trudeau's calculation has blown up in his face.
CBC: Government pipeline purchase won't solve Trans Mountain stalemate, say analysts
"If the only way that happens is by the government buying it out, it weakens the federal government's credibility."
Laurie Adkin, a political science professor at the University of Alberta, notes that being part owner of a pipeline does not solve the Constitutional questions that B.C. is raising about its right to protect the environment within its borders.
First Nations say Trudeau doesn’t have their consent to build Trans Mountain
But hours later, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs issued a press release stating, “This pipeline will never be built.” During a press conference Monday, leaders of the Tsleil-Waututh and Squamish First Nations along the pipeline route said consultations have been “deeply flawed,” and the federal government does not have their consent to build the Trans Mountain expansion.
Flood the US market with cheap oil?
Maybe trudOWE is banking on Keystone taking Alberta oil South so he can say KM expansion is not necessary and Alberta still has a method of getting product to market while BC gets the shaft on jobs and the economy as usual.
There are lines from AB,SK and MB to the US.
Line 3 is being replaced with larger pipe as we speak.
No protestors and it fills tankers on Lake Superior.
Nobody likes Lake Superior I guess?
Line 3 is being replaced with larger pipe as we speak.
No protestors and it fills tankers on Lake Superior.
Nobody likes Lake Superior I guess?
Knocking up the price of gas, diesel and aviation fuel to around $3.00 will have a motivating effect